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	<title>Comments on: TSA claims new powers of detention, search, and interrogation</title>
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	<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/</link>
	<description>Challenging ID Demands</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: TSA claims new powers of detention, search, and interrogation &#171; The PPJ Gazette</title>
		<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/#comment-130284</link>
		<dc:creator>TSA claims new powers of detention, search, and interrogation &#171; The PPJ Gazette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Apr 2010 04:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.papersplease.org/wp/?p=479#comment-130284</guid>
		<description>[...] 8, 2010 by ppjg    Live Link: Papers,Please! The Identity Project The Identity Project explores and defends the fundamental American right to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 8, 2010 by ppjg    Live Link: Papers,Please! The Identity Project The Identity Project explores and defends the fundamental American right to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Hasbrouck</title>
		<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/#comment-123687</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Hasbrouck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.papersplease.org/wp/?p=479#comment-123687</guid>
		<description>Vadim: The first section you cite is limited to searches (which doesn't include not answering questions) for specific purposes (which do not include searches for credentials or other evidence of identity).  And it pertains to actions taken pursuant to regulations, whereas there are no regulations (only non-regulatory and partially secfret "procedures") governing most TSA searches and interrogations, or the obligation of travelers to submit to them. The second portion your cite is subject to general rules including those at 49 USC 40101 (2) ("A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace"), and 49 USC 40101 (c) ("the Administrator ... shall consider the following matters: ... (2) the public right of freedom of transit through the navigable airspace"), as well as the First Amendment, Constitutional rights to substantive and procedural due process, and international treaty obligations under the ICCPR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vadim: The first section you cite is limited to searches (which doesn&#8217;t include not answering questions) for specific purposes (which do not include searches for credentials or other evidence of identity).  And it pertains to actions taken pursuant to regulations, whereas there are no regulations (only non-regulatory and partially secfret &#8220;procedures&#8221;) governing most TSA searches and interrogations, or the obligation of travelers to submit to them. The second portion your cite is subject to general rules including those at 49 USC 40101 (2) (&#8221;A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace&#8221;), and 49 USC 40101 (c) (&#8221;the Administrator &#8230; shall consider the following matters: &#8230; (2) the public right of freedom of transit through the navigable airspace&#8221;), as well as the First Amendment, Constitutional rights to substantive and procedural due process, and international treaty obligations under the ICCPR.</p>
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		<title>By: Vadim</title>
		<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/#comment-123676</link>
		<dc:creator>Vadim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.papersplease.org/wp/?p=479#comment-123676</guid>
		<description>While I'm in no way support TSA's abilities to suppress basic freedoms, still, from the pure law standpoint, their actions are legal, and the basis is right there in the law you quoted:
=================
49 USC 44902(b) b
Mandatory Refusal. - The Under Secretary of Transportation for Security shall prescribe regulations requiring an air carrier, intrastate air carrier, or foreign air carrier to refuse to transport - (1) a passenger who does not consent to a search under section 44901(a) of this title establishing whether the passenger is carrying unlawfully a dangerous weapon, explosive, or other destructive substance; or (2) property of a passenger who does not consent to a search of the property establishing whether the property unlawfully contains a dangerous weapon, explosive, or other destructive substance. (b) Permissive Refusal. - Subject to regulations of the Under Secretary, an air carrier, intrastate air carrier, or foreign air carrier may refuse to transport a passenger or property the carrier decides is, or might be, inimical to safety. (c) 
=================

(b) specifically allows TSA to refuse travel to anyone who they think is inimical to safety; since it does not provide any limits on the considerations that lead to such conclusion, those considerations can be any, including answers to any questions, or refusing to answer those questions. In the recent incident with the student Nick George who was arrested for studying Arabic language because that's the language Bin Laden spoke, TSA claimed that he was detained because of behavioral analyst tip. This, as well as the Arabic language, is already good enough to refuse travel. Further, TSA can and probably will argue that all this also provides sufficient probable cause for arrest, since they suspect that the individual is about to commit a crime (basing on behavior etc.) Arguing whether these considerations and conclusions are reasonable won't work either because they will say that their multi-million-dollar research tells them that their behavioral analysis is reliable indicator of the terrorist crime in progress, and they won't divulge any further details because of security concerns.

In addition, looking at the numerous comments people leave about these stories where they say that there's absolutely nothing wrong with arresting anybody suspicious (they are in clear majority), this idea apparently has very broad support. Specifically, Nick George has been asked by TSA what he thinks about 9/11, and he said that this is complicated issue; now look at the dozens of comments all saying that having him arrested for that answer alone was not only justified, but absolutely necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;m in no way support TSA&#8217;s abilities to suppress basic freedoms, still, from the pure law standpoint, their actions are legal, and the basis is right there in the law you quoted:<br />
=================<br />
49 USC 44902(b) b<br />
Mandatory Refusal. - The Under Secretary of Transportation for Security shall prescribe regulations requiring an air carrier, intrastate air carrier, or foreign air carrier to refuse to transport - (1) a passenger who does not consent to a search under section 44901(a) of this title establishing whether the passenger is carrying unlawfully a dangerous weapon, explosive, or other destructive substance; or (2) property of a passenger who does not consent to a search of the property establishing whether the property unlawfully contains a dangerous weapon, explosive, or other destructive substance. (b) Permissive Refusal. - Subject to regulations of the Under Secretary, an air carrier, intrastate air carrier, or foreign air carrier may refuse to transport a passenger or property the carrier decides is, or might be, inimical to safety. (c)<br />
=================</p>
<p>(b) specifically allows TSA to refuse travel to anyone who they think is inimical to safety; since it does not provide any limits on the considerations that lead to such conclusion, those considerations can be any, including answers to any questions, or refusing to answer those questions. In the recent incident with the student Nick George who was arrested for studying Arabic language because that&#8217;s the language Bin Laden spoke, TSA claimed that he was detained because of behavioral analyst tip. This, as well as the Arabic language, is already good enough to refuse travel. Further, TSA can and probably will argue that all this also provides sufficient probable cause for arrest, since they suspect that the individual is about to commit a crime (basing on behavior etc.) Arguing whether these considerations and conclusions are reasonable won&#8217;t work either because they will say that their multi-million-dollar research tells them that their behavioral analysis is reliable indicator of the terrorist crime in progress, and they won&#8217;t divulge any further details because of security concerns.</p>
<p>In addition, looking at the numerous comments people leave about these stories where they say that there&#8217;s absolutely nothing wrong with arresting anybody suspicious (they are in clear majority), this idea apparently has very broad support. Specifically, Nick George has been asked by TSA what he thinks about 9/11, and he said that this is complicated issue; now look at the dozens of comments all saying that having him arrested for that answer alone was not only justified, but absolutely necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Parish</title>
		<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/#comment-120921</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.papersplease.org/wp/?p=479#comment-120921</guid>
		<description>I am writing in response to your statement " There is a Federal law against carrying (1) more than $10,000 (the police and/or TSA continued to detain Mr. Bierfeldt after counting the $4700 in his possession) (2) across the US border in or out of the country (Mr. Bierfeldt had a boarding pass for, and was attempting to board, a domestic flight), (3) without having declared it on a specified form to the Department of the Treasury (which the TSA and police had no way to know if Mr. Bierfeldt had done, didn’t ask him about, and gave no indication that they had tried to find out). In any event, this law is not policed or enforced by the DEA or the TSA."  This is NOT true.  Any amount of currency or negotiable monetary instruments may be carried across international borders into or out the United States.  The legal requirement is to report the transporation of amounts in excess of $10,000.  This can be found in Title 31 United States Code 5316.  I believe the question concerning the money could be addressed in Title 21 United States Code 981 and the seizure of money suspected as being proceeds in a narcotics transaction.  This is investigated by DEA and DHS/ICE.  This situation however concerns me as to my knowledge, TSA Officers do not have any independant enforcement authority and may only refer suspected violations to other agencies.  I question as to what violation was suspected in this situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am writing in response to your statement &#8221; There is a Federal law against carrying (1) more than $10,000 (the police and/or TSA continued to detain Mr. Bierfeldt after counting the $4700 in his possession) (2) across the US border in or out of the country (Mr. Bierfeldt had a boarding pass for, and was attempting to board, a domestic flight), (3) without having declared it on a specified form to the Department of the Treasury (which the TSA and police had no way to know if Mr. Bierfeldt had done, didn’t ask him about, and gave no indication that they had tried to find out). In any event, this law is not policed or enforced by the DEA or the TSA.&#8221;  This is NOT true.  Any amount of currency or negotiable monetary instruments may be carried across international borders into or out the United States.  The legal requirement is to report the transporation of amounts in excess of $10,000.  This can be found in Title 31 United States Code 5316.  I believe the question concerning the money could be addressed in Title 21 United States Code 981 and the seizure of money suspected as being proceeds in a narcotics transaction.  This is investigated by DEA and DHS/ICE.  This situation however concerns me as to my knowledge, TSA Officers do not have any independant enforcement authority and may only refer suspected violations to other agencies.  I question as to what violation was suspected in this situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Papers, Please! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; TSA releases (censored) ID checking procedures</title>
		<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/#comment-116072</link>
		<dc:creator>Papers, Please! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; TSA releases (censored) ID checking procedures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.papersplease.org/wp/?p=479#comment-116072</guid>
		<description>[...] the TSA SOP manual suggests that the TSA knows that their authority is limited, and in particular does not extend to detention, general-puprose search, confiscation of documents, or compelled responses to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the TSA SOP manual suggests that the TSA knows that their authority is limited, and in particular does not extend to detention, general-puprose search, confiscation of documents, or compelled responses to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Papers, Please! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; TSA releaseS excerpts from guidelines for searches</title>
		<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/#comment-114035</link>
		<dc:creator>Papers, Please! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; TSA releaseS excerpts from guidelines for searches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.papersplease.org/wp/?p=479#comment-114035</guid>
		<description>[...] an agreement to settle the lawsuit brought by the ACLU on behalf of Steve Bierfeldt &#8212; who was detained and interrogated at a TSA checkpoint at the St. Louis airport because he was (a) carrying an (entirely legal) amount [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an agreement to settle the lawsuit brought by the ACLU on behalf of Steve Bierfeldt &#8212; who was detained and interrogated at a TSA checkpoint at the St. Louis airport because he was (a) carrying an (entirely legal) amount [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Today we’re all prisoners in the USA &#8211; Papers, Please! &#171; Truth11</title>
		<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/#comment-113813</link>
		<dc:creator>Today we’re all prisoners in the USA &#8211; Papers, Please! &#171; Truth11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.papersplease.org/wp/?p=479#comment-113813</guid>
		<description>[...] DHS  APIS regulations already require airlines to obtain individualized prior permission from the DHS before they allow anyone (even a U.S. citizen) to enter, leave or transit the U.S. by air, and the theSecure Flight scheme will require the same for domestic flights as soon as the travel industry can build the elaborate and expensive infrastructure needed for such a real-time travel surveillance and control program.  Meanwhile, the DHS is exapnding their assertion of similar and increasingly intrusive powers of search, seizure, interrogation, and above all surveillance (monitoring and logging) and control of travel and movement within the U.S. through warrantless, suspicionless checkpoints onroads that don’t cross any border and are up to 100 miles from coasts or borders, and at airports for passengers on domestic flights. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] DHS  APIS regulations already require airlines to obtain individualized prior permission from the DHS before they allow anyone (even a U.S. citizen) to enter, leave or transit the U.S. by air, and the theSecure Flight scheme will require the same for domestic flights as soon as the travel industry can build the elaborate and expensive infrastructure needed for such a real-time travel surveillance and control program.  Meanwhile, the DHS is exapnding their assertion of similar and increasingly intrusive powers of search, seizure, interrogation, and above all surveillance (monitoring and logging) and control of travel and movement within the U.S. through warrantless, suspicionless checkpoints onroads that don’t cross any border and are up to 100 miles from coasts or borders, and at airports for passengers on domestic flights. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Louis Glotzer</title>
		<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/#comment-107962</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Glotzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.papersplease.org/wp/?p=479#comment-107962</guid>
		<description>I bumped into your site while surfing to find law firms that will represent my wife on a TSA employee's abuse committed against her while going through security with our 4 year old Granddaughter on a trip to Panama City Panama on 28 July 2009.

My wife had her right index finger bandaged and supported by an aluminum support. She had been tended to at INOVA Hospital at Alexandria VA on the 25th of July. Her finger had been accidentally slit open with a razor blade while she was cleaning the vanity top of the master bedroom and had 6 stitches holding it together.  

Without reason nor explanation she was submitted to search and inside the plastic see-through cubicles on the other side of the walk through scanner.  The burly female TSA employee in a very rude manner ordered her around as you do a POW, She made her spin around like a top while she ran the wand all over her body inclusive in between her legs, actually slapping her parts as she slid it up and down in between her legs.

My wife cannot hold her arms straight up for she has splintered bone fragments in the 5th, 6th and 7th cervicals. She requested an interpreter in Spanish for she does not speak nor understand English fluently, but to no avail the TSA employee press on with her body scan, made her unbuttoned her pants and pull it forward where she could peek in and see her private parts. This went on for almost 25 minutes non stop. Then she called for a doctor, For what purpose or reason we dont know for no one took the time to explain to her what they where looking for or why. Apparently a supervisor approached the TSA abuser and ordered her to release her. This happened without a word of apology.

We want to bring this woman to justice. We are not rich, and do not have the money to put down the retainer that lawyers normally want to charge you up front. But, would want to talk to one who will  listen to us and determine if we have a case and proceed with a lawsuit for the public humiliation and physical exacerbation of pain which my wife is enduring over her shoulder and right arm as a result of methodology and verbal abuse she was a victim of from the TSA employee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bumped into your site while surfing to find law firms that will represent my wife on a TSA employee&#8217;s abuse committed against her while going through security with our 4 year old Granddaughter on a trip to Panama City Panama on 28 July 2009.</p>
<p>My wife had her right index finger bandaged and supported by an aluminum support. She had been tended to at INOVA Hospital at Alexandria VA on the 25th of July. Her finger had been accidentally slit open with a razor blade while she was cleaning the vanity top of the master bedroom and had 6 stitches holding it together.  </p>
<p>Without reason nor explanation she was submitted to search and inside the plastic see-through cubicles on the other side of the walk through scanner.  The burly female TSA employee in a very rude manner ordered her around as you do a POW, She made her spin around like a top while she ran the wand all over her body inclusive in between her legs, actually slapping her parts as she slid it up and down in between her legs.</p>
<p>My wife cannot hold her arms straight up for she has splintered bone fragments in the 5th, 6th and 7th cervicals. She requested an interpreter in Spanish for she does not speak nor understand English fluently, but to no avail the TSA employee press on with her body scan, made her unbuttoned her pants and pull it forward where she could peek in and see her private parts. This went on for almost 25 minutes non stop. Then she called for a doctor, For what purpose or reason we dont know for no one took the time to explain to her what they where looking for or why. Apparently a supervisor approached the TSA abuser and ordered her to release her. This happened without a word of apology.</p>
<p>We want to bring this woman to justice. We are not rich, and do not have the money to put down the retainer that lawyers normally want to charge you up front. But, would want to talk to one who will  listen to us and determine if we have a case and proceed with a lawsuit for the public humiliation and physical exacerbation of pain which my wife is enduring over her shoulder and right arm as a result of methodology and verbal abuse she was a victim of from the TSA employee.</p>
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		<title>By: Papers, Please! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Courts and Congress finally start to rein in the TSA</title>
		<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/#comment-104103</link>
		<dc:creator>Papers, Please! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Courts and Congress finally start to rein in the TSA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 02:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.papersplease.org/wp/?p=479#comment-104103</guid>
		<description>[...] the section of the decision by the 9th Circuit last year in Aukai that we recently mentioned here.) Holding that &#8220;The Government bears the burden of establishing that a search was [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the section of the decision by the 9th Circuit last year in Aukai that we recently mentioned here.) Holding that &#8220;The Government bears the burden of establishing that a search was [...]</p>
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		<title>By: stk</title>
		<link>http://www.papersplease.org/wp/2009/04/20/tsa-claims-new-powers-of-detention-search-and-interrogation/#comment-103373</link>
		<dc:creator>stk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.papersplease.org/wp/?p=479#comment-103373</guid>
		<description>Good article, however I disagree with it.

Fact #1: there is a rule of visibility: anything law enforcement officer can see, can be used as evidence, even if this is irrelevant to the reason he stopped you. For example, if the officer makes a traffic stop and through the window of your car sees packet with drugs, he will arrest you. In this case, TSA during security screening have discovered large sum of cash (by their definition).

Fact #2: 
----------------------------------------
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/12/1296.asp

Eighth Circuit Appeals Court ruling says police may seize cash from motorists even in the absence of any evidence that a crime has been committed.

US Court of Appeals, Eighth Circuit federal appeals court ruled yesterday that if a motorist is carrying large sums of money, it is automatically subject to confiscation. In the case entitled, “United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency,” the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit took that amount of cash away from Emiliano Gomez Gonzolez, a man with a “lack of significant criminal history” neither accused nor convicted of any crime.
…
Yesterday the Eighth Circuit summarily dismissed Gonzolez’s story. It overturned a lower court ruling that had found no evidence of drug activity, stating, “We respectfully disagree and reach a different conclusion… Possession of a large sum of cash is ’strong evidence’ of a connection to drug activity.”
----------------------------------------

Basing on this precedent, TSA's discovery of the cash is strong evidence of a connection to drug activity. Yes, it has nothing to do with airline security, but because of the rule of visibility, this ’strong evidence’ they have found is more than sufficient reason for the arrest, interrogation, and ceasing the cash.

However unreasonable this "strong evidence" appears to 99.9% of people (I hope), it is indeed real law precedent upheld by high court, so it can't be easily dismissed. TSA was acting 100% legally, and their intent to pass the case to DEA was 100% legally valid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article, however I disagree with it.</p>
<p>Fact #1: there is a rule of visibility: anything law enforcement officer can see, can be used as evidence, even if this is irrelevant to the reason he stopped you. For example, if the officer makes a traffic stop and through the window of your car sees packet with drugs, he will arrest you. In this case, TSA during security screening have discovered large sum of cash (by their definition).</p>
<p>Fact #2:<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
<a href="http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/12/1296.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/12/1296.asp</a></p>
<p>Eighth Circuit Appeals Court ruling says police may seize cash from motorists even in the absence of any evidence that a crime has been committed.</p>
<p>US Court of Appeals, Eighth Circuit federal appeals court ruled yesterday that if a motorist is carrying large sums of money, it is automatically subject to confiscation. In the case entitled, “United States of America v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency,” the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit took that amount of cash away from Emiliano Gomez Gonzolez, a man with a “lack of significant criminal history” neither accused nor convicted of any crime.<br />
…<br />
Yesterday the Eighth Circuit summarily dismissed Gonzolez’s story. It overturned a lower court ruling that had found no evidence of drug activity, stating, “We respectfully disagree and reach a different conclusion… Possession of a large sum of cash is ’strong evidence’ of a connection to drug activity.”<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Basing on this precedent, TSA&#8217;s discovery of the cash is strong evidence of a connection to drug activity. Yes, it has nothing to do with airline security, but because of the rule of visibility, this ’strong evidence’ they have found is more than sufficient reason for the arrest, interrogation, and ceasing the cash.</p>
<p>However unreasonable this &#8220;strong evidence&#8221; appears to 99.9% of people (I hope), it is indeed real law precedent upheld by high court, so it can&#8217;t be easily dismissed. TSA was acting 100% legally, and their intent to pass the case to DEA was 100% legally valid.</p>
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